MERPS states that he is NOT a WINGED Cold Drake. Moran half valar (talk) 20:04, August 8, 2019 (UTC)
Also I want to add, that I don't think it states that Andanc dies by the time of Thorin Oakenshield. Also, I might have found an error, I read that Kuri holds a ring of power that Andanc devours, but it says here that Dwari was devoured with his ring of power. I think the tale of the Dragons and Dwarfs is a little off and needs a thorough read through and the errors corrected. Moran half valar (talk) 04:37, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- I added the "winged" in an edit from 20 May 2019, either because i was in a hurry or because i was misled by the illustration and thought Ando-anca was the winged one if both dragons OR i was already influenced by LOTRO and Vethrug Wintermind.
The entire dwarf/Dragons thing... Well i did TRY do correct it and adjust things between MERP and LOTRRPG, maybe i messed up at some points? nowadays theres LOTRO as a third version of it which complicates things further.Dwari and Kuri almost certainly is a LOTRRPG thing.I'll have to look it up.--Haerangil (talk) 09:27, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- I just read the version history...
I think you wrote the article on Kuri which says the ring was devoured, i believe you took that from LOTRRPG? On dwari ... does it? The dwári from this wiki lived in the second age... the passage was added by user "Alex of Star Wars", i do not know why.
I think it is canon that Smaug was the oldest living dragon in his time (when he died) and the last great dragon, so i guess Andanc must have been dead by then.--Haerangil (talk) 09:41, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Could be, I don't remember reading that. I'll go take a look. Thank you Haerangil. I did do the page with Kuri only because you put down that he was the last one to receive a ring of power--so I just ran with a fanfic story that adhered to your initial post. As for Dwari, maybe he should be deleted since he seems redundant. Moran half valar (talk) 23:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Hey Haerangil, since Andanc in MERPS is a Red Cold Drake that killed Dain I and Fror as well as devoured two of the seven rings, couldn't we attribute him to being the father of Smaug? I mean it would make sense to combine his character with a dragon that had devoured two of the three Dwarf Rings and make him the commander of the Dragons during the War of the Dwarves and Dragons. There is evidence when Tolkien had characters killed it was usually by the best of each army (Sauron vs Eldendil/Gil-Galad, Eomer vs Ugluck, Turin vs Glaurung, Smaug vs Girion, etc.) So could we combine Andanc and just say that Smaug's father is another name for him? Moran half valar (talk) 20:13, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Well it doesn't say that they didn't have a commander but then again they would almost have to have a leader to unanimously go to war with the Dwarves. Andanc is the perfect Cold Drake to choose, I mean you have him devouring two of the four dwarf rings which is significant. No doubt this could have added to his greed and allowed him to rally/persuade the rest of the dragons to action. I think this makes sense and is more epic. I mean it syncs up with what is written in the books. Also, I didn't find anywhere where it states that the Great Cold Drake was killed. Moran half valar (talk) 03:31, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
- I would like to merge Vethug and Andanc in a way that works, and i am not a friend of having Smaug be the son of a blue cold-drake, though one could be the mother, one the father, but one has to be red and a firedragon.On a dragon-leader for the attack on the entwives i do not have a strong opinion, i never liked the idea that dragons were involved in that at all, in my opinion re-emerged dragons should largely be a third-age thing and not connected to Sauron.--Haerangil (talk) 19:27, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Haerangil, I agree with you that Dragons should be more involved in the Third Age and not the Second Age, I'll delete the dragons out of the Entwife article. Sorry about that.In regards to Smaug, I think Andanc could be his father if Smaug's mother was able to fly and breathe fire. I believe this could work then. Moran half valar (talk) 17:21, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- i incorporated the fanfic/headcanon mentiins of Smaugs parents being Fafnir and Saraphira i had googled, changed the names to tolklang conventions.They do not need to be important dragons, they can easily have been shortlived and inimportant during their time, their son overshadowing his parents.--Haerangil (talk) 18:09, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Well in my head canon, I viewed that Smaug had a vendetta against the Dwarfs because of his father's ire and enmity towards them. I could see Andanc sending or cunningly convincing him to assault Erebor in order to allow him free reign over the Grey Mountains/Withered Heath. Moran half valar (talk) 20:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Headcanmons are always fine.But i ask myself if personal revenge would not diminish Smaugs own vileness and greed at last a little bit.Anyway... i am still struggling with bringing Ando-anca and Vethug Wintermind a bit better in account.--Haerangil (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- In LOTRRPG it is Skell who slais both Dain and Fror .Is it stated in MERP that ando-anca killed the two? I couldn't find it in creatures of ME 1st or 2nd ed.--Haerangil (talk) 00:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- allright! I found a possible solution! LOTRO has Vethug Wintermind alive and enslaved by a lesser wraith after the war of the ring... this to me seems like a lore-break.Vethug can't be as old as Smaug, as Smaug canonically is the last of the great dragons.Ergo his boast of having killed them must be false and he could only be a younger dragon, maybe the son or descendant of Dain's slayer.Ergo as far as i am concerned Vethug may be retconned as Skell's son and Skell is the skayer of Dain and Fror.If Ando-anca is clearly stated to have slain dain and fror then he and Skell are two names for the same dragon, if not they might ge two different entities. Compromise? --Haerangil (talk) 00:56, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- In LOTRRPG it is Skell who slais both Dain and Fror .Is it stated in MERP that ando-anca killed the two? I couldn't find it in creatures of ME 1st or 2nd ed.--Haerangil (talk) 00:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
- Confirmed.MERP the grey mountains stated Ando-anca killed dain, so he and Skell are the same.--Haerangil (talk) 01:05, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I have no problems with that Haerangil. I am okay with Ando-Anca being the one that killed Dain and Fror, however, you have him listed as Skell which devoured two dwarf rings--how can he do this if he can't fly? He would have had a long way to walk to the Red Mountains, and that is what I was saying. We should retconne Ando-Anca as a winged cold drake. Moran half valar (talk) 15:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
- yeah, the entire seven rings thing needs to be rearranged too
According to LOTRO Tínya was swallowed by Hrímil, Tulcya by Thostír, Vanya and Úrya by Fingar.I'll now have to track down the history of these rings - if given at all - from MERP and lotrrpg and vübring them into accord.Ando-Anca/Skell is not Fingar as he devoured the blue mt rings so i guess it is obsolete now anyways.--Haerangil (talk) 18:05, 22 November 2021 (UTC)